|  Author | Topic: Deliberate Unintended Consequences (Read 440 times) |
kilgoreforelle
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|  | Deliberate Unintended Consequences
« Thread Started on Feb 19, 2008, 12:03pm » | |
Immigration Land Grab Along the Border
Last Saturday’s Washington Post had an interesting story about the federal government’s land grab along the Rio Grande to build its anti-immigrant Berlin Fence. Not surprisingly, Texas landowners, many of whom have owned their property for generations, are fighting this federal tyranny as hard as they can. -- Jacob Hornberger
It looks like the feds go out of their way to ensure that there are unintended consequences. I've heard that the best way to get rid of a law is to enforce it vigorously in an onerous way. We'll see.
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ukisgr8
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« Reply #1 on Feb 19, 2008, 12:05pm » | |
Quote:Immigration Land Grab Along the Border
Last Saturday’s Washington Post had an interesting story about the federal government’s land grab along the Rio Grande to build its anti-immigrant Berlin Fence. Not surprisingly, Texas landowners, many of whom have owned their property for generations, are fighting this federal tyranny as hard as they can. -- Jacob Hornberger
It looks like the feds go out of their way to ensure that there are unintended consequences. I've heard that the best way to get rid of a law is to enforce it vigorously in an onerous way. We'll see. |
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I'm not sure why this is an issue to be honest. Democrats are all for the government taking land to build a new Walmart but a fence for national security is a big issue? I don't get it.
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Fredmanthecatfan
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« Reply #2 on Feb 19, 2008, 12:19pm » | |
The solution is SOOOOOOO Simple. The landowners on the border should secure the border at their own property. The govt should pay the landowners X$ for how ever many illegals they shoot as they come onto their property.
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Wildcatwelder
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« Reply #3 on Feb 19, 2008, 12:27pm » | |
^^^I could live with that.
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kilgoreforelle
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« Reply #4 on Feb 19, 2008, 12:29pm » | |
Well, Hornberger predicted that the same conservatives who were crying bloody murder on that case (correctly, imho) would have swallowed their whistles on this one. Failure to apply a principle in all cases is unprincipled behavior.
Even though the fence is a failure before it begins, that is not what my complaint is about. My complaint is: If it is not a good idea to co-sign a loan for your relative, for any purpose, then why do we give a blank check to the most untrustworthy entity we know to protect us.
A fence? $7 billion. A tyrannical, incompetent government? $4 trillion. Damage to American people and their property? Priceless.
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kilgoreforelle
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« Reply #5 on Feb 19, 2008, 12:32pm » | |
And I'm glad to see that the illegal alien problem is working out in your home towns, gr8, fred, and ww, because they are running wild here in waddy! que pasa?
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ukisgr8
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« Reply #6 on Feb 19, 2008, 12:33pm » | |
Quote:Well, Hornberger predicted that the same conservatives who were crying bloody murder on that case (correctly, imho) would have swallowed their whistles on this one. Failure to apply a principle in all cases is unprincipled behavior.
Even though the fence is a failure before it begins, that is not what my complaint is about. My complaint is: If it is not a good idea to co-sign a loan for your relative, for any purpose, then why do we give a blank check to the most untrustworthy entity we know to protect us.
A fence? $7 billion. A tyrannical, incompetent government? $4 trillion. Damage to American people and their property? Priceless. |
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We are being invaded at the tune of 1.5 million people per year, I think we have to do something.
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Fredmanthecatfan
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« Reply #7 on Feb 19, 2008, 12:36pm » | |
I don't really think WW, ukisg8, or myself said anything about illegals in our home towns. In other words potro freza.
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kilgoreforelle
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« Reply #8 on Feb 19, 2008, 12:40pm » | |
Oh, I took your defense of the status quo as a sign of satisfaction! 
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Fredmanthecatfan
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« Reply #9 on Feb 19, 2008, 12:43pm » | |
Yo repitir, potro freza.
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ukisgr8
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« Reply #10 on Feb 19, 2008, 12:45pm » | |
Quote:| Oh, I took your defense of the status quo as a sign of satisfaction! |
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Trust me, if I had my way, I'd give new meaning to the term, "Trail of tears".
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kilgoreforelle
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« Reply #11 on Feb 19, 2008, 12:47pm » | |
Quote:| We are being invaded at the tune of 1.5 million people per year, I think we have to do something. |
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You are absolutely correct, gr8. Haven't we been thinking something should be done for several years now? What has it gotten us?
We just got the biggest screwing of our lives from bush, congress, illegal aliens, illegal employers, the human traffic trade -- they compromised on a law proposal that we killed (for every good reason), and left us holding the bag with the status quo.
No bill = no change. Same problem. Why isn't lou dobbs explaining that one to us?
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kilgoreforelle
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« Reply #12 on Feb 19, 2008, 12:56pm » | |
Quote:
Here's the translation I got at babelfish: "I to repitir, colt freza." 
Does rationalization in spanish soothe the bite of living with the status quo? 
In the past we had an immigration program with 0% efficiency in keeping illegals out.
today we have an immigration program with 0% efficiency in keeping illegals out.
in the foreseeable future we have an immigration program with 0% efficiency in keeping illegals out.
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Wildcatwelder
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« Reply #13 on Feb 19, 2008, 1:00pm » | |
Most of us are unhappy with our border security, or lack thereof. Imho, SOMETHING must be done, and soon. As 8 has pointed out, over a million and a half Latinos enter here illegally annually.
Realistically, what other options are feasible? Build a big ass wall and order troops and civilians to shoot on sight is a start imo.
Fine, "give us your tired, your weak, your repressed, etc.", but do it LEGALLY. You want to be an American citizen Pablo? Fine, let's start the process shall we? Crossing the Rio Grande successfully is not the path to citizenship.
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Fredmanthecatfan
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« Reply #14 on Feb 19, 2008, 1:03pm » | |
Quote:
Quote:
Here's the translation I got at babelfish: "I to repitir, colt freza."
Does rationalization in spanish soothe the bite of living with the status quo?
In the past we had an immigration program with 0% efficiency in keeping illegals out.
today we have an immigration program with 0% efficiency in keeping illegals out.
in the foreseeable future we have an immigration program with 0% efficiency in keeping illegals out.
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I already offered my solution.
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vhcat1970
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« Reply #15 on Feb 19, 2008, 1:31pm » | |
Well, I say condemning property for the common good versus the good of developers is OK - provided the property owners are compensated & building a fence is the common good - which I think it would be.
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kilgoreforelle
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| | Re: Deliberate Unintended Consequences
« Reply #16 on Feb 19, 2008, 1:35pm » | |
Quote:
Quote:
Here's the translation I got at babelfish: "I to repitir, colt freza."
Does rationalization in spanish soothe the bite of living with the status quo?
In the past we had an immigration program with 0% efficiency in keeping illegals out.
today we have an immigration program with 0% efficiency in keeping illegals out.
in the foreseeable future we have an immigration program with 0% efficiency in keeping illegals out.
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I already offered my solution. |
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Is that the one, fred, where you usurp the lives of private citizens who live on the border, demanding that they forsake their lives for your objectives? And I guess they'll still get to pay taxes for the privilege.
It's unlike you to propose social engineering. It's unlike you to disguise such an idea as a "solution." 
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Fredmanthecatfan
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« Reply #17 on Feb 19, 2008, 1:39pm » | |
Quote:
Quote:
I already offered my solution. |
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Is that the one, fred, where you usurp the lives of private citizens who live on the border, demanding that they forsake their lives for your objectives? And I guess they'll still get to pay taxes for the privilege.
It's unlike you to disguise such an idea as a "solution." |
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I suppose I'm operating under the assumption that they would be happy to do it. If that's not the case, then that's not a solution. How about the govt ask them, "Hey neighbor, how would you like to make some $$$, shoot some illegals, and save the taxpayers some cash?"
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kilgoreforelle
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« Reply #18 on Feb 19, 2008, 1:46pm » | |
govt, $$$, shoot -- what part of social engineering is it that you're not getting, fred?
Please, man, you're one of the stable people on the PA. It makes me queasy when you go all nutcase. 
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Fredmanthecatfan
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« Reply #19 on Feb 19, 2008, 1:55pm » | |
It's interesting that we frequently see Forelle observations and critiques. I'm glad we do as they range on the wide scale of highly insightful to mildly amusing. However, what we don't see very often is Forelle solutions.
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Ganner
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« Reply #20 on Feb 19, 2008, 2:11pm » | |
Quote:| Democrats are all for the government taking land to build a new Walmart |
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Come on gr8, you know that's not true.
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Here's to a long life and a merry one, A quick death and an easy one, A pretty girl and an honest one, A cold beer—and another one! |
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ukisgr8
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« Reply #21 on Feb 19, 2008, 2:13pm » | |
Quote:
Quote:| Democrats are all for the government taking land to build a new Walmart |
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Come on gr8, you know that's not true. |
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I know, felt like being sarcastic. A lot of generalities on this board the last 2 days, thought I'd join in. 
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kilgoreforelle
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« Reply #22 on Feb 19, 2008, 3:02pm » | |
Quote:| It's interesting that we frequently see Forelle observations and critiques. I'm glad we do as they range on the wide scale of highly insightful to mildly amusing. However, what we don't see very often is Forelle solutions. |
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How would you know?
My first solution is to have no social engineering. Second, find out who is not doing their job in enforcing current law (betcha it's under a guy named chertoff!), and tell them they have 6 months to double their objectives or hit the bricks.
But my solutions will never involve commandeering the rightful property of American citizens, nor the mass deception of the American people in tricking them into doing nothing at great cost.
For the life of me, I cannot understand your defense, fred, of what is going on. Give us some high insight or at least mildly amuse us.
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oruacat2
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« Reply #23 on Feb 19, 2008, 3:06pm » | |
Quote:| Most of us are unhappy with our border security, or lack thereof. |
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Some of us have argued for years that monies spent on invading Iraq, on "star wars", and on exotic futuristic weapons systems would be much better utilized beefing up the USBP and USCG. Some of us were scoffed-at by your conservative brethren and criticized as "isolationist".
Why so late to the party?
KD
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Fredmanthecatfan
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« Reply #24 on Feb 19, 2008, 3:09pm » | |
How would I know? Because I read this board. 
Telling guys who aren't doing their jobs to hit the bricks, while a good idea, still doesn't get the job done, and therefore isn't a solution. The question is, "whatcha gonna do to stop illegal immigration?."
What we've been doing isn't working, and I don't nor will I ever defend it.
I also don't see how encouraging land owners on the border to protect their property and in doing so, protect their piece of the border is social engineering.
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ukisgr8
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« Reply #25 on Feb 19, 2008, 3:18pm » | |
Quote:
Quote:| Most of us are unhappy with our border security, or lack thereof. |
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Some of us have argued for years that monies spent on invading Iraq, on "star wars", and on exotic futuristic weapons systems would be much better utilized beefing up the USBP and USCG. Some of us were scoffed-at by your conservative brethren and criticized as "isolationist".
Why so late to the party?
I would rather spend money on the PGA.
The rest of your post is confusing, are you saying you guys are isolationists? I don't think anyone is confusing Clinton as being an isolationist.
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/12/16/transcripts/clinton.html
KD |
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oruacat2
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« Reply #26 on Feb 19, 2008, 3:27pm » | |
I don't think I mentioned Clinton.
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kilgoreforelle
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« Reply #27 on Feb 19, 2008, 3:29pm » | |
Quote:How would I know? Because I read this board.
Telling guys who aren't doing their jobs to hit the bricks, while a good idea, still doesn't get the job done, and therefore isn't a solution. The question is, "whatcha gonna do to stop illegal immigration?."
What we've been doing isn't working, and I don't nor will I ever defend it.
I also don't see how encouraging land owners on the border to protect their property and in doing so, protect their piece of the border is social engineering. |
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Well, since you're only contribution so far is to conscript citizens to commit murder, mercenary or otherwise, I'll wait until the conversation becomes serious. For instance, how about your solution to how we're going to quit taking property away from people. My solution again is to stop the federal government from turning this into a major overkill. Now let's hear your ideas on implementation.
You say, "I also don't see how encouraging land owners on the border to protect their property and in doing so, protect their piece of the border is social engineering?."
Of such failures of vision are all social engineering crimes born.
I suppose you do not see how getting the populace whipped up into a frenzy, about illegal mexicans for political purposes without having any intention of doing anything about it, is social engineering also.
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ukisgr8
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« Reply #28 on Feb 19, 2008, 3:34pm » | |
Quote:| I don't think I mentioned Clinton. |
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of course you didn't, you pick and choose who you criticize.
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oruacat2
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« Reply #29 on Feb 19, 2008, 3:37pm » | |
Quote:
Quote:| I don't think I mentioned Clinton. |
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of course you didn't, you pick and choose who you criticize. |
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I'm gonna ask you this in the most serious and compassionate manner- are you fucking retarded?
On a thread talking about border security and illegal immigration, you post a thread about Clinton ordering the CONTINUATION of air-strikes against Iraq and actually think it means something?
Give it up.
KD
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